-Reading Merton's, "Thoughts in Solitude" right now, and I have a question.
When we make decisions (good or bad) as children of God, does God shape his will around our choices? I have always thought that God just kind of cleans up our messes - the "all things work together for good", bit, but Merton seems to be suggesting (part 2, chapter 13) that because God has so empowered us through Christ, our choices determine God's will (yikes!).
Specifically - "God himself will cover your mistaken choices by accepting them, in good part, as 'His will.'"
What does that mean?
It kind of makes a big difference to me if I think of God following after me with a broom, or if he is willing to let me affect him.
Anonymous or known. Email, or comment. I would like to hear some ideas on this. Even if you haven't read Merton. Do we (sort of) determine God's will?
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
10 comments:
I wish I had some great clarity to shine on this. I don't. But it is something that I've given a *great* deal of thought to, and have never come up with a satisfying answer. I don't like the implications of our will affecting God's will, making God out to be much less powerful and in control than I would like to see; nor do I like the idea of God knowing what's really going to happen under "God's will" meaning that I don't really have any say in the matter at all... I only think I do. Both are unsettling. But if I had to lean one way or the other, my old fashioned way of thinking would gravitate towards the later scenerio. I just can't believe that God isn't big or powerful enough to know what I am going to "choose." Not that I am at peace with that answer though. That's a tough one.
thanks j. i'm so glad you answered!
i think i love the implications of our will affecting god's will. it feels more relational to me then. i kind of wonder, that if god can work my will, into his will, then doesn't that make him even more powerful, and us even more responsible? i realize that idea is plum full of holes, but... what do you think of that?
i guess i wasn't thinking as much about the free will issue, as much as what my choices do to god (which, ummm, actually sounds a little arrogant of me to ask)do i touch god? do you? does he let us move him, even when we choose wrongly, because he respects us?
dig?
Well, that's the way I have always thought of it - ie., we make our choices based on what we are taught, give our best (hopefully) of intentions, and then the acceptance comes as does forgiveness when necessary.
That's the way I look at it.
deb,
what about what merton seems to be saying about our mistakes being accepted into god's will? it doesn't sound exactly the same as forgiveness, but more like adaptation. you think?
(fantastic picture)
My feelings are that God created us to be realtional therefore being in relationship with God we have to affect each other. I went and heard David Suzuki speak on our relationship with the environment and how damaging it is to not be thinking of how our every choice has consequence. I belive God created the world interactively, interdependently and relationally. When we start thinking in our own little box we make fairly damaging choices, when we remember how much our choices affect everything around us both now and for generations to come I think we make better choices. I also feel closer to a God who I can influence and relate to than a God who has already decided everything. Love the dialouge!
As the partner of a theologian, I have had many discussions on this one. We haven't come up with any answers, but I certainly like Merton's view of the relationality of God's will. If God had a perfect will for us and then gave us free will of our own, certainly there would be conflict in there. So, when we deviated from the master plan, as it were, then God would have had to shift around God's plan, too, because the original plan would be impossible given the choices we've made.
I believe that since we've been given free will, there has to be room for relationship with God concerning a great many things, including (perhaps above all) God's will. It's a give and take, and it seems both amazing and terrifying at once. Amazing that the creator of the universe would want to be in relationship with me. Terrifying that I have that kind of responsibility sitting on my shoulders.
I don't know, and I was trying really hard to come up with a smart, insightful, and thoughtful answer.
But, in the end, if I'm being honest, I don't know what I think, and I'm not even sure I care. Thinking about it won't change how I live my life. It won't change how I view God. And thinking about it, won't help me to know for sure. I'll be guessing until I die, just like Merton and the rest of the planet.
I hope this isn't coming off arogant or ignorant. I guess I just wanted to throw this out there because I used to stress so much over the details of my faith. I'm just being really picky these days on what I invest my mental and spiritual energy contemplating. Yanno?
And, I'm not saying it's right. I think you will all be smarter and deeper in the end. But, for my own sanity's sake, I have to choose my mind battles.
I'm enjoying reading about your thoughts.
karen, i love that truth is truth, hey? that what is true in how we should care for our world is true in how we relate to god. that excites me.
cristina,
ya. relational. relational. i'm thinking a lot about that responsibility part, too. mostly because i 've often seen god as a parent with one long sigh escaping her lips, and an "i told you so, attitude". responsibility adds respect and dignity, yes?
ohhhh shannon. now you're kicked out of the good christian club, too. not caring? pfff!
hey, thanks for your honesty. this idea does actually affect how i live my life, but i completely understand why it might seem irrelevant and i agree about picking those battles. pick away, friend.
Oh, I respect that it affects your life. I just want to know how. How will you live differently based on what you decide to believe?
Because, maybe I should think more about it too! I'm totally swayable!
do you mean poor decisions or truly sinful decisions?
I don't know the right terms: "perfect will", "permissive", and I don't much like them either. But I guess I distinguish between disobedience, and just being a stupid human being. Disobedience I would say is not God's will in the sense that he hates evil. But it does seem that God makes incredible provisions for our human-ness(by being human himself for instance); he doesn't seem to be ashamed of it, despite the fact that we constantly shift between the lines of good and evil. If the "line of good and evil runs right through every human heart", God would have to be very relational if he is to deal with the entire person. but now I'm off topic.
-right now i try not to think about it too much. i have a hard enough time loving God and making good choices.
very interesting thoughts, Angela.
Post a Comment